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Quainton News Archive - Quainton News No. 59 - Spring 1986

A Century on Rails - A Sequel on the Stock Book by Trevor Page

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D Howells - Turning off the A40 at Hillingdon - On its way from Acton on 30th January 1983, coach W2242

When I was conned into rewriting the QRS stock book, little did I realise what a mammoth job I was letting myself in for! Work initially began in mid-1983 and, after a great sigh of relief, A Century on Rails finally appeared at Easter 1985. Much of the preparation time was spent chasing photos taken of our less presentable relics at a time when they were in a more attractive condition and were still in one piece! I tried hard to check the information given on each item in previous stock books, but, even so, a few errors still crept in, particularly on the C&W side. I am particularly indebted to Richard Casserley for pointing these out, as well as bringing to light a great deal of interesting new information.

The following notes are based on information supplied by Richard and they should be read in conjunction with a copy of A Century on Rails. (Wot! Not got one! Shame on you! Get one now from the shop, price £1.95 - you can even pay by Access!). [Note 1]

In a few cases the new information raises certain doubts as to the accuracy of the identity of some items of stock, so perhaps if you can add anything or solve a mystery then please drop me a line (address on back cover).

Here goes then!

Firstly, we must begin with some printers errors. On page 70, the first bogie carriage was, of course, introduced to British main lines in 1874, not 1847. On page 71, the 1933 number of the inspection saloon body should be 45024, not 45624 - and, on page 73, the LNER number of MSLR 1076 should be 51076, not 21076. The number of our GNR brake third is, of course, 1470, not 1472 - and Richard tells us that it was built in 1899 and he also has the departmental number as DE940482, not DE940460. The GNR six-wheeled third, formerly known as ?459, is in fact GNR 459. The supposed missing digit is another 4, from the LNER number 4459. The coach was built in 1901 and withdrawn in April 1940.

Now onto page 75 and the first of the bogie vehicles. The original number for our LNWR diner was 249, later 5249. It became No. 77 as a result of the LMS 1933 renumbering, as stated. No. 249 was completed on 12th December 1900, although some records show 1901 as the date to traffic.

Moving onto the LNWR sleeping car, we come to the first case of mistaken identity. Richard Casserley has this coach as No. 36, not No. 112 as we had previously recorded. Our vehicle was definitely ex-DM395017 (see Quainton News No. 21) and the former number 36 is correct. Originally it was a sleeping car of a batch built in 1907 and was converted to a cinema coach in 1936/37. It arrived at Quainton on 10th July 1974.

Some additional information on LNWR composite No. 2997 shows that it was completed on 9th January 1920. Latterly, as a tool van, it was allocated to Toton, Tyseley and Chester. In passenger service it had three first and four third-class compartments. LNWR suburban brake No. 7340 was completed on 29th January 1921 and went into service as the end vehicle of inter-district set 104. (These were four coach sets, permanently coupled until split up by the LMS in the late 1920s.)

On page 77, LMS vestibule third No.7820 (the second refreshment coach) was built at Derby as No. 5913 to diagram 01353. Chris Britten's LMS sleeper No. 592 was withdrawn from passenger service in December 1963 and its departmental number was DM395922.

Referring to our Gresley vehicles, Mr. Casserley states that brake third No. 43184 was condemned in November 1964, not 1965. I seem to recall an earlier debate on this though, so can anybody support either theory? The next piece of information may well compel a reconsideration of the identity of our Gresley non-corridor coach - for, according to Richard's records, No. 22219 is more likely to be 22299. The pre-1946 number of BR's E82145E was 774, allocated to the Northern Scottish section (GN&SR). It arrived there in April 1936, having previously served on the North Eastern section as 22299. (It was the practice of the LNER, prior to 1946, to renumber vehicles as they were transferred from Area to Area!)

Mr. Casserley continues ... It is true that No. 22219 was of the same type - and it was built by Cravens in 1925. It was transferred to the Southern Scottish section (NBR) in May 1934 as 31034 - but, in the 1946 renumbering, it became 82101. It was withdrawn in 1961 and sold for scrap in 1963.

In view of the two-year difference between area transfers (1934-36) and withdrawal dates (1959- 61), it seems unlikely that these vehicles would have been confused in the official records and it would seem our coach must be 22299. If the Metropolitan Carriage Wagon and Finance Co. works plate could be found that should settle the matter, but, unfortunately, it carries no works plates, builders plates or any other trace of identity, so the matter remains a mystery. Perhaps when restoration gets under way somebody could take the care to work through the layers of paint with paint stripper to see what can be seen?

Now to the Great Western ...

Hawksworth brake third W2242 - it appears this vehicle was completed in December 1950, was withdrawn from passenger service in October 1966 and then carried the departmental number DW150391.

The BR MK1 brake second corridor is no longer with us, of course, having been transferred to the Mid-Hants Railway in exchange for BS No. 43190, but the number is misprinted on page 81, appearing as S344947 - of course, it should be S34947.

Moving on to the non-passenger coaching stock, Richard Casserley has identified the LNWR combination truck ...

"The LNWR Combination Truck was 36895 before conversion to a cell truck in March 1954. It started life on 28th June 1911, when it was turned out of Wolverton as LNWR 11388, although dated 1912 in LMS records. 111 vehicles of this type were built from 1910 to 1915 and they were used as general vans, although the end doors made them suitable for transporting carriages, horse and horseless, when required."

On page 86, the 6024 Preservation Society's PMV, SR1108, was built at Ashford in July 1936 and withdrawn April 1972, while their milk tank No. 2536 was built at Swindon in 1934, part of Lot 1517 to Diagram 039. The former LMS Stove Van, No. 33014, was built at Wolverton in March 1940, part of Lot 1262 - and appears on Diagram D2000. On page 88, another misprint describes Reg and Janice's horsebox as No. S9403, of course, it should be S94603!

Finally, Mr. Casserley has thrown some doubt onto the identities of the two Dunsmore Bodies in use as sales outlets. This is a job for somebody with spare time, a detective's instinct, a tape measure, notebook and a supply of patience. If the bodies are 28' 0" they would be part of batches built in 1890, 1896 or 1900, not 1874 as previously suggested. Assuming they belong to one of these batches, then they could either be thirds (seventy built), seconds (twenty built) or composite second/third (twenty built) as the bodies were identical. The early vehicles of this type had 18' 0" wheelbase and the later ones 17' 0", although this is no help now! A further problem is that the number 4569 uncovered on the body now used as the 6024 PS shop once belonged to a first class vehicle of 30' 1" length. All very confusing! Richard Casserley advises would-be detectives to look on ventilators (if any survive) or door hinges for evidence of numbering, as these items were commonly stamped with the vehicle number. The same applies to strapping and hinges etc. on wagon bodies, as this is how the numbers on our two ex-GER open wagons were discovered.

I think that's just about covered everything! It would be nice to clear up these outstanding queries before the next stock book is produced (NO! I'm not doing it!!). Our grateful thanks to Richard Casserley for helping to start the ball rolling.

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D Battersby - Identified as GN459, third class compartment coach

1 - Obviously we can no longer supply this item at the prices offered in 1986, if at all!

The text in this Quainton Railway Society publication was written in 1986 and so does not reflect events in the 25+ years since publication. The text and photographs are repeated verbatim from the original publication, with only a few minor grammar changes but some clarifying notes are added if deemed necessary. The photos from the original publication are provided as scans in this internet version of this long out of print publication.

A Century on Rails - A Sequel on the Stock Book by Trevor Page - Quainton News No. 59 - Spring 1986

Text © Quainton Railway Society / Photographs © Quainton Railway Society or referenced photographer
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